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	<title>Comments on: A Baucus Proposal Republicans Should Be Open To</title>
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	<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/</link>
	<description>Health Care Policy and Reform Insights &#124; NCPA</description>
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		<title>By: Robert Berry, MD</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46680</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Berry, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I believe that the &quot;ideal approach&quot; is to eliminate the tax exemption for health insurance entirely. This is what Milton Friedman believed.

There is no more reason for an employer to provide his employees with medical care than there is for him to provide them with food or clothing or housing... The best reform would be to eliminate the tax deduction of any medical care expenses. There is no more reason for medical care expenses to be tax deductible than for food, clothing, and housing expenses to be tax deductible.” (Milton Friedman Nov. 2004 – personal correspondence with David Gratzer published on page 186 of The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Health Care).  				 
Put health insurance on a level playing field with other goods and services within our economy.  Other things promote or preserve health and are not tax exempt.  For example, large SUV&#039;s are safer than small less expensive vehicles but don&#039;t get a tax exemption under FSA&#039;s, HRA&#039;s, or HSA&#039;s.  

In addition, these tax gimmicks give policy wonks and university professors a tax advantage over self-employed lower middle class folk (the kind that pay for services post-tax at my medical practice) like carpenters, mechanics, farmers, and beauticians.  The law currently excludes them from such benefits.  In addition, they don&#039;t keep up with the arcane minutiae of health insurance tax policy - most have not even heard of HSA&#039;s, HRA&#039;s, or FSA&#039;s much less be able to distinguish among their provisions.  Why should employees of large organizations and policy wonks benefit at the expense of kind of people who pay full price for their medical care but are less able to do so?

Simply the tax code by eliminating the tax exemption for health insurance completely so that the well connected and knowledgeable don&#039;t benefit at the expense of people who build our houses, fix our toilets, and cut our hair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the &#8220;ideal approach&#8221; is to eliminate the tax exemption for health insurance entirely. This is what Milton Friedman believed.</p>
<p>There is no more reason for an employer to provide his employees with medical care than there is for him to provide them with food or clothing or housing&#8230; The best reform would be to eliminate the tax deduction of any medical care expenses. There is no more reason for medical care expenses to be tax deductible than for food, clothing, and housing expenses to be tax deductible.” (Milton Friedman Nov. 2004 – personal correspondence with David Gratzer published on page 186 of The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Health Care).<br />
Put health insurance on a level playing field with other goods and services within our economy.  Other things promote or preserve health and are not tax exempt.  For example, large SUV&#8217;s are safer than small less expensive vehicles but don&#8217;t get a tax exemption under FSA&#8217;s, HRA&#8217;s, or HSA&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>In addition, these tax gimmicks give policy wonks and university professors a tax advantage over self-employed lower middle class folk (the kind that pay for services post-tax at my medical practice) like carpenters, mechanics, farmers, and beauticians.  The law currently excludes them from such benefits.  In addition, they don&#8217;t keep up with the arcane minutiae of health insurance tax policy &#8211; most have not even heard of HSA&#8217;s, HRA&#8217;s, or FSA&#8217;s much less be able to distinguish among their provisions.  Why should employees of large organizations and policy wonks benefit at the expense of kind of people who pay full price for their medical care but are less able to do so?</p>
<p>Simply the tax code by eliminating the tax exemption for health insurance completely so that the well connected and knowledgeable don&#8217;t benefit at the expense of people who build our houses, fix our toilets, and cut our hair.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Ingles</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46639</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Ingles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46639</guid>
		<description>I think of both FSAs and HSAs as mainly stopgap fixes to an insane tax system.  Does it make sense to allow rollovers?  Of course, but insignificant compared to reforming the tax treatment of health insurance.

In an ideal world I&#039;d like to see migration toward a flat 20- to 25-percent tax credit toward premiums for health insurance that follows roughly the same rules as today&#039;s employer-provided insurance, and a 10- to 12-percent tax credit toward HSA contributions (to split the difference between insurance-paid expenditures and non-health spending).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think of both FSAs and HSAs as mainly stopgap fixes to an insane tax system.  Does it make sense to allow rollovers?  Of course, but insignificant compared to reforming the tax treatment of health insurance.</p>
<p>In an ideal world I&#8217;d like to see migration toward a flat 20- to 25-percent tax credit toward premiums for health insurance that follows roughly the same rules as today&#8217;s employer-provided insurance, and a 10- to 12-percent tax credit toward HSA contributions (to split the difference between insurance-paid expenditures and non-health spending).</p>
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		<title>By: sauerc</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46635</link>
		<dc:creator>sauerc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46635</guid>
		<description>@kerbo

Its not that FSAs are bad, because as you say many users know their costs. However done correctly they could revelutionize the consumer driven health market as Dr. Goodman points out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@kerbo</p>
<p>Its not that FSAs are bad, because as you say many users know their costs. However done correctly they could revelutionize the consumer driven health market as Dr. Goodman points out.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph W.</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46633</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46633</guid>
		<description>He&#039;d need to change the &quot;use it or lose it&quot; provisions as well as the employer forfeiture provisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;d need to change the &#8220;use it or lose it&#8221; provisions as well as the employer forfeiture provisions.</p>
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		<title>By: John R. Graham</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46632</link>
		<dc:creator>John R. Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46632</guid>
		<description>Is Professor Reinhardt asserting that Dr. Goodman is in a higher tax-bracket than Prof. Reihnhardt is?  I hope all the scribblers on this blog are not going to have to disclose our incomes, like politicians do!

I suppose that it is just a consequence of the institutions of the American republic that &quot;reformers&quot; very seldom have the oportunity to wipe the slate clean and start over, like they might in a parliamentary system.  Rather, as the shortcomings of previous &quot;reforms&quot; become evident, new bells and whistles are added to the machinery, without eliminating the incumbent shortcomings.

Look at how needlessly complex defined-contribution retirement savings is: 401(k)s, 403(k)s, IRAs, Roth IRAs, Rollover IRAs,.....

Because FSAs were the first attempt to give employees pre-tax dollars to spend on health goods and services of their own choice, I suppose they have the greatest shortcomings.

Employers should embrace the proposal of &quot;FSA-Plus&quot;, if only because it would allow them to motivate more employee loyalty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Professor Reinhardt asserting that Dr. Goodman is in a higher tax-bracket than Prof. Reihnhardt is?  I hope all the scribblers on this blog are not going to have to disclose our incomes, like politicians do!</p>
<p>I suppose that it is just a consequence of the institutions of the American republic that &#8220;reformers&#8221; very seldom have the oportunity to wipe the slate clean and start over, like they might in a parliamentary system.  Rather, as the shortcomings of previous &#8220;reforms&#8221; become evident, new bells and whistles are added to the machinery, without eliminating the incumbent shortcomings.</p>
<p>Look at how needlessly complex defined-contribution retirement savings is: 401(k)s, 403(k)s, IRAs, Roth IRAs, Rollover IRAs,&#8230;..</p>
<p>Because FSAs were the first attempt to give employees pre-tax dollars to spend on health goods and services of their own choice, I suppose they have the greatest shortcomings.</p>
<p>Employers should embrace the proposal of &#8220;FSA-Plus&#8221;, if only because it would allow them to motivate more employee loyalty.</p>
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		<title>By: Devon Herrick</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46631</link>
		<dc:creator>Devon Herrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46631</guid>
		<description>A problem with FSAs is that they can only be used during a short time horizon. Currently, you can set funds aside you estimate your family will need this year.  If balances could be rolled over, you could set aside funds you know you will need two decades from now.  Instead of gouging young people to cross-subsidize older, less healthy individuals, we need to give young people a vehicle to pool their own health risk across their productive lives. Repealing the use-it-or-lose-it provisions would go a long way to helping individuals save for health needs that will inevitably come later in life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A problem with FSAs is that they can only be used during a short time horizon. Currently, you can set funds aside you estimate your family will need this year.  If balances could be rolled over, you could set aside funds you know you will need two decades from now.  Instead of gouging young people to cross-subsidize older, less healthy individuals, we need to give young people a vehicle to pool their own health risk across their productive lives. Repealing the use-it-or-lose-it provisions would go a long way to helping individuals save for health needs that will inevitably come later in life.</p>
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		<title>By: Morris Bryant, MD</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46629</link>
		<dc:creator>Morris Bryant, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46629</guid>
		<description>$2500/yr?  My out of pocket has been $5000/yr several years running, except this year I am projecting $10000!  And I have full fledged University insurance!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$2500/yr?  My out of pocket has been $5000/yr several years running, except this year I am projecting $10000!  And I have full fledged University insurance!</p>
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		<title>By: Uwe R.</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46628</link>
		<dc:creator>Uwe R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46628</guid>
		<description>I absolutely must go see a shrink. This is the second time I agree with you.
 
To make it perfect, everyone putting money into an HSA should get a 30% tax credit.  It irks me that you get a higher tax rebate. (Professors, of course, are in a lower marginal tax bracket.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely must go see a shrink. This is the second time I agree with you.</p>
<p>To make it perfect, everyone putting money into an HSA should get a 30% tax credit.  It irks me that you get a higher tax rebate. (Professors, of course, are in a lower marginal tax bracket.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46626</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46626</guid>
		<description>Jerry, just because the system benefits you does not mean that it is socially good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry, just because the system benefits you does not mean that it is socially good.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Kerbo</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/a-baucus-proposal-republicans-should-be-open-to/comment-page-1/#comment-46623</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Kerbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=5620#comment-46623</guid>
		<description>John -- Your article seems to paint quite a negative picture of FSAs.  Many of us regular FSA users know how to estimate our annuual election and therefore don&#039;t forfeit eligible election dollars.  This is the only tax avoidance program for the common man other than HSAs but it definetley is for an entirely different purpose than your HSA.  We FSA users love our FSAs.  I think you are attempting to be overly simplistic in your discssion when you refer to &quot;depositing&quot; funds in an FSA.  No one deposits funds in an FSA.  They are salary reduction programs and as such, there are no funds to be deposited anywhere.  The entries an employer makes are all just journal entries.  Further, the use it lose-it requirement is &quot;over studied.&quot;  So long as a user has qualified expenses within 25% to 35% his election amnout (whatever his effective tax rate is) he will not have lost any ground on what would have been sent to Uncle Sam anyway.  HSAs are great but don&#039;t disparage FSAs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John &#8212; Your article seems to paint quite a negative picture of FSAs.  Many of us regular FSA users know how to estimate our annuual election and therefore don&#8217;t forfeit eligible election dollars.  This is the only tax avoidance program for the common man other than HSAs but it definetley is for an entirely different purpose than your HSA.  We FSA users love our FSAs.  I think you are attempting to be overly simplistic in your discssion when you refer to &#8220;depositing&#8221; funds in an FSA.  No one deposits funds in an FSA.  They are salary reduction programs and as such, there are no funds to be deposited anywhere.  The entries an employer makes are all just journal entries.  Further, the use it lose-it requirement is &#8220;over studied.&#8221;  So long as a user has qualified expenses within 25% to 35% his election amnout (whatever his effective tax rate is) he will not have lost any ground on what would have been sent to Uncle Sam anyway.  HSAs are great but don&#8217;t disparage FSAs.</p>
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