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	<title>Comments on: Can There Be Scaled-Down Health Reform?</title>
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	<description>Health Care Policy and Reform Insights &#124; NCPA</description>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-54455</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-54455</guid>
		<description>You make so much sense.  Why can&#039;t the democrats see your ideas will work?  So frustrating to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make so much sense.  Why can&#8217;t the democrats see your ideas will work?  So frustrating to me.</p>
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		<title>By: imperfect</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53256</link>
		<dc:creator>imperfect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53256</guid>
		<description>My MD has this suggestion, which would ease the problem of &quot;pre-existing conditions&quot; and the &quot;affordability&quot; problem:  Allow doctors, clinics and hospitals to deduct the cost of charitable care.

Let&#039;s face it, giving someone medical insurance benefits that he hasn&#039;t paid for whether in cash or with insurance premiums is a form of charity anyway, however it&#039;s packaged.  Somebody always pays for it, whether it&#039;s the other members of the insurance plan, or the taxpayer.  

My MD also says one reason hospital costs are so high is that they have to provide emergency room care to literally anyone, whether it&#039;s an emergency or not, and whether they can pay or not.  If &quot;non-emergency&quot; care were tax deductible, then it could be provided in non-hospital settings at lower cost.  Even better, it would be voluntary and not mandatory, which makes it more American, in my opinion.

i</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My MD has this suggestion, which would ease the problem of &#8220;pre-existing conditions&#8221; and the &#8220;affordability&#8221; problem:  Allow doctors, clinics and hospitals to deduct the cost of charitable care.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it, giving someone medical insurance benefits that he hasn&#8217;t paid for whether in cash or with insurance premiums is a form of charity anyway, however it&#8217;s packaged.  Somebody always pays for it, whether it&#8217;s the other members of the insurance plan, or the taxpayer.  </p>
<p>My MD also says one reason hospital costs are so high is that they have to provide emergency room care to literally anyone, whether it&#8217;s an emergency or not, and whether they can pay or not.  If &#8220;non-emergency&#8221; care were tax deductible, then it could be provided in non-hospital settings at lower cost.  Even better, it would be voluntary and not mandatory, which makes it more American, in my opinion.</p>
<p>i</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Timmins</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53228</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Timmins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53228</guid>
		<description>Once again H. Carroll has hit the nail on the head when he suggests that an alternate answer is introduction of &quot;whole life medical insurance&quot;.  In fact, I submit that it is the &quot;ultimate answer&quot;, and that everything between what we are doing now and the eventual majority acceptance of the concept of whole life medical is merely transitional.

Indeed, &quot;creativity&quot; is the key element of workable solutions to healthcare financing, and it should be the job of the government to create an environment to encourage that creativity instead of re-enforcing a system of total dependence and entitlement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again H. Carroll has hit the nail on the head when he suggests that an alternate answer is introduction of &#8220;whole life medical insurance&#8221;.  In fact, I submit that it is the &#8220;ultimate answer&#8221;, and that everything between what we are doing now and the eventual majority acceptance of the concept of whole life medical is merely transitional.</p>
<p>Indeed, &#8220;creativity&#8221; is the key element of workable solutions to healthcare financing, and it should be the job of the government to create an environment to encourage that creativity instead of re-enforcing a system of total dependence and entitlement.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53144</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53144</guid>
		<description>H.Carroll, I agree that employer-based coverage is not uniform.  But two points:

1) The counterexample doesn&#039;t need to be universal to falsify Krugman&#039;s statement.

2) If you aren&#039;t trying to use forced participation by healthy people as a hidden tax to finance the subsidy for sickly people, then universal participation is no longer critical.  The total societal cost to subsidize high-risk people down to a given premium level should be the same whether everyone signs up, or only those sick people.  Sure, lack of participation is a problem for small businesses, but that&#039;s not really what we&#039;re talking about here.

Back to the first point, I&#039;m sure there are many things that influence participation in employer plans.  Laws vary from state to state, thereby affecting small business rates.  Tax rates aren&#039;t uniform, so lower-income workers face the double disincentive of a lower tax incentive on top of having less disposable income to spend on insurance.  And the pools are not uniform.  And as you say, some healthy people just don&#039;t want to pay for insurance.  So I agree with all that.  But with all the gaps, employer-sponsored insurance is still the most common form of coverage in the U.S.  If you back away from the variations, the overall picture is one of a system that subsidizes community rating using the income and payroll tax, rather than a hidden head tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H.Carroll, I agree that employer-based coverage is not uniform.  But two points:</p>
<p>1) The counterexample doesn&#8217;t need to be universal to falsify Krugman&#8217;s statement.</p>
<p>2) If you aren&#8217;t trying to use forced participation by healthy people as a hidden tax to finance the subsidy for sickly people, then universal participation is no longer critical.  The total societal cost to subsidize high-risk people down to a given premium level should be the same whether everyone signs up, or only those sick people.  Sure, lack of participation is a problem for small businesses, but that&#8217;s not really what we&#8217;re talking about here.</p>
<p>Back to the first point, I&#8217;m sure there are many things that influence participation in employer plans.  Laws vary from state to state, thereby affecting small business rates.  Tax rates aren&#8217;t uniform, so lower-income workers face the double disincentive of a lower tax incentive on top of having less disposable income to spend on insurance.  And the pools are not uniform.  And as you say, some healthy people just don&#8217;t want to pay for insurance.  So I agree with all that.  But with all the gaps, employer-sponsored insurance is still the most common form of coverage in the U.S.  If you back away from the variations, the overall picture is one of a system that subsidizes community rating using the income and payroll tax, rather than a hidden head tax.</p>
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		<title>By: H.Carroll</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53137</link>
		<dc:creator>H.Carroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53137</guid>
		<description>John - I understand the issue of &quot;carrier equity&quot; with which you are concerned.  It only comes up when carriers can no longer rate for health status.  My suggestion for using policies where &quot;responsibility follows occurrence&quot; as with disability coverage takes care of most of that issue, since in that case, Plan A doesn&#039;t &quot;escape&quot; the financial responsibility for the patient&#039;s condition even if the patient switches to Plan B on the renewal date.  Plan B only worries about NEW conditions, things first manifesting themselves while they are providing the coverage.  Plan A must manage the claim and take care of the expenses relating to the condition that started while they were providing the coverage, and would have prevented Plan B from writing the patient risk in the &quot;current&quot; way of doing things.  This provides incentive to Plan A to manage treatment of the condition from the longer term point of view, purchase packages of &quot;condition based capitation&quot; from the best providers for that condition, etc.  It also makes Plan A more &quot;honest&quot; in its renewal offer, since they hold no &quot;leverage&quot; over the patient.

An alternative would be to develop something along the lines of &quot;whole life medical expense&quot; insurance, where healthy people buy a &quot;level premium&quot; life time cover similar to whole life insurance.  Actuarially this must include a major component of cash build up to &quot;level&quot; the premium out (in fact, a guaranteed increasing scale of premiums is probably more practical than a truly level amount - it would still call for significant &quot;paid in&quot; extra in the early years).  This would be the equivalent to an HSA type accumulation vehicle intended to be drawn down to cover the increasing costs going forward after a certain point.  There are a number of interesting actuarial and other practical challenges to such a product (not the least of which is to factor in inflation and the impact of any Medicare benefits), but nothing that can&#039;t be accomplished with a little  creativity.  There would be sizable cash values to such a policy, which could be transferable should the insured decide to switch to a different carrier later on, and that would serve as that transition transfer, of sorts, to which you prefer.  This just deals with the financial side of the issue, of course, and doesn&#039;t discuss how it interrelates to the &quot;provision&quot; side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John &#8211; I understand the issue of &#8220;carrier equity&#8221; with which you are concerned.  It only comes up when carriers can no longer rate for health status.  My suggestion for using policies where &#8220;responsibility follows occurrence&#8221; as with disability coverage takes care of most of that issue, since in that case, Plan A doesn&#8217;t &#8220;escape&#8221; the financial responsibility for the patient&#8217;s condition even if the patient switches to Plan B on the renewal date.  Plan B only worries about NEW conditions, things first manifesting themselves while they are providing the coverage.  Plan A must manage the claim and take care of the expenses relating to the condition that started while they were providing the coverage, and would have prevented Plan B from writing the patient risk in the &#8220;current&#8221; way of doing things.  This provides incentive to Plan A to manage treatment of the condition from the longer term point of view, purchase packages of &#8220;condition based capitation&#8221; from the best providers for that condition, etc.  It also makes Plan A more &#8220;honest&#8221; in its renewal offer, since they hold no &#8220;leverage&#8221; over the patient.</p>
<p>An alternative would be to develop something along the lines of &#8220;whole life medical expense&#8221; insurance, where healthy people buy a &#8220;level premium&#8221; life time cover similar to whole life insurance.  Actuarially this must include a major component of cash build up to &#8220;level&#8221; the premium out (in fact, a guaranteed increasing scale of premiums is probably more practical than a truly level amount &#8211; it would still call for significant &#8220;paid in&#8221; extra in the early years).  This would be the equivalent to an HSA type accumulation vehicle intended to be drawn down to cover the increasing costs going forward after a certain point.  There are a number of interesting actuarial and other practical challenges to such a product (not the least of which is to factor in inflation and the impact of any Medicare benefits), but nothing that can&#8217;t be accomplished with a little  creativity.  There would be sizable cash values to such a policy, which could be transferable should the insured decide to switch to a different carrier later on, and that would serve as that transition transfer, of sorts, to which you prefer.  This just deals with the financial side of the issue, of course, and doesn&#8217;t discuss how it interrelates to the &#8220;provision&#8221; side.</p>
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		<title>By: H.Carroll</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53135</link>
		<dc:creator>H.Carroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53135</guid>
		<description>Bart - your point about using employer based insurance as a counter example to Krugman&#039;s anti-selection argument is a bit off-target in my view.  The reason is that there is a very significant difference between the actuarial dynamics of group insurance purchasing/rating versus that of individual health insurance.  There is, in fact, anti-selection that takes place in the group market when the coverage is not what we call non-contributory - that is, in situations where the employer does not pay the total cost of the plan.  When employees must contribute (we&#039;ll ignore the question about dependents which is related but not relevant to the point at hand) for their own coverage, participation definitely goes down, for lots of reasons, many of them the same as the kinds of reasons individuals don&#039;t buy an individual policy when that is there only option.  When that participation gets down past some minimum critical level, at least theoretically, the insurer won&#039;t quote the case, or in other words, the &quot;group&quot; has in fact become uninsurable because it doesn&#039;t meet the underwriting requirements.  And, the purchasing process is far different than why an individual wants to buy an individual policy.  However, the decision by an individual within the group to participate or not is to a fair extent driven by the fact of the tax sheltered status of her contributions, you are correct about that.  The system should most definitely equalize the tax status of premiums and to some extent out of pocket expenses across all individuals/employer plans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart &#8211; your point about using employer based insurance as a counter example to Krugman&#8217;s anti-selection argument is a bit off-target in my view.  The reason is that there is a very significant difference between the actuarial dynamics of group insurance purchasing/rating versus that of individual health insurance.  There is, in fact, anti-selection that takes place in the group market when the coverage is not what we call non-contributory &#8211; that is, in situations where the employer does not pay the total cost of the plan.  When employees must contribute (we&#8217;ll ignore the question about dependents which is related but not relevant to the point at hand) for their own coverage, participation definitely goes down, for lots of reasons, many of them the same as the kinds of reasons individuals don&#8217;t buy an individual policy when that is there only option.  When that participation gets down past some minimum critical level, at least theoretically, the insurer won&#8217;t quote the case, or in other words, the &#8220;group&#8221; has in fact become uninsurable because it doesn&#8217;t meet the underwriting requirements.  And, the purchasing process is far different than why an individual wants to buy an individual policy.  However, the decision by an individual within the group to participate or not is to a fair extent driven by the fact of the tax sheltered status of her contributions, you are correct about that.  The system should most definitely equalize the tax status of premiums and to some extent out of pocket expenses across all individuals/employer plans.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53094</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53094</guid>
		<description>Correction:  I should have said &quot;the difference in cost between community-rated and individually-underwritten coverage is effectively a head tax &lt;i&gt;if the former is made mandatory.&lt;/i&gt;

In either case, the subsidy to high-risk individuals has to come from somewhere.  Transferring the money directly from low-risk individuals rather than cycling it through the general fund doesn&#039;t make it free.  Concealment of this fact seems to be the main purpose for the complexity of the House and Senate bills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction:  I should have said &#8220;the difference in cost between community-rated and individually-underwritten coverage is effectively a head tax <i>if the former is made mandatory.</i></p>
<p>In either case, the subsidy to high-risk individuals has to come from somewhere.  Transferring the money directly from low-risk individuals rather than cycling it through the general fund doesn&#8217;t make it free.  Concealment of this fact seems to be the main purpose for the complexity of the House and Senate bills.</p>
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		<title>By: John Goodman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53092</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53092</guid>
		<description>Response to H. Carroll and others. I have no problem wrapping the two premiums together and, for that matter, let&#039;s call the combined premium &quot;health insurance.&quot; The issue is: what happens when the individual leaves his insurance plan for another plan? Current practice is to let the exited plan off scott free and make the new plan pay the full cost of continuing care. That practice needs to change.

If a high cost patient leaves Plan A (to which he has been paying premiums all these many years) and enters Plan B, then A ought to make a payment to B to cover the extraordinary expenses B will now have to pay for. That payment is what you get from what I am calling change of health status insurance.

No question that this makes the management of risk more diffficult. But it&#039;s easier for insurers to manage that risk than individuals on their own. 
This should not add costs to the system as a whole, however, since we still have the same medical bills we had before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Response to H. Carroll and others. I have no problem wrapping the two premiums together and, for that matter, let&#8217;s call the combined premium &#8220;health insurance.&#8221; The issue is: what happens when the individual leaves his insurance plan for another plan? Current practice is to let the exited plan off scott free and make the new plan pay the full cost of continuing care. That practice needs to change.</p>
<p>If a high cost patient leaves Plan A (to which he has been paying premiums all these many years) and enters Plan B, then A ought to make a payment to B to cover the extraordinary expenses B will now have to pay for. That payment is what you get from what I am calling change of health status insurance.</p>
<p>No question that this makes the management of risk more diffficult. But it&#8217;s easier for insurers to manage that risk than individuals on their own.<br />
This should not add costs to the system as a whole, however, since we still have the same medical bills we had before.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53090</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53090</guid>
		<description>Quoting Krugman:&lt;blockquote&gt;Suppose, for example, that Congress took the advice of those who want to ban insurance discrimination on the basis of medical history, and stopped there. What would happen next? The answer, as any health care economist will tell you, is that if Congress didn’t simultaneously require that healthy people buy insurance, there would be a “death spiral”: healthier Americans would choose not to buy insurance, leading to high premiums for those who remain, driving out more people, and so on.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This statement is absolutely false.  The proof by counter-example: employer-sponsored insurance is prohibited by law from discriminating on the basis of medical history, subject to a waiting period for individuals without prior creditable coverage.  But government doesn&#039;t require those individuals to purchase insurance, nor does it prohibit them from seeking cheaper insurance outside the workplace.  

Instead, favorable tax treatment gives healthy individuals incentive to participate.  Naturally, this requires the expenditure of tax dollars.

The scheme Krugman seems to think necessary requires a transfer of tax dollars as well, but in this case the taxes are hidden.  For healthy individuals, the difference in cost between community-rated and individually-underwritten coverage is effectively a head tax.  Congress attempts to compensate for this highly regressive tax by adjusting the premium based on income. So now you have what amounts to a shadow graduated income tax, presumably requiring a shadow IRS operating within HHS, and who knows what anyone&#039;s effective tax rate will be. It&#039;s no wonder the proposal grew to over 2000 pages.

Rather than a regressive implied tax that requires extensive compensation to turn regressive into progressive, a fairer and more honest source of funding would have been the existing tax system. That&#039;s what 2/3 of the country already uses; compared to the annual $200 billion cost of the employer tax exclusion, the cost of a voluntary community-rated alternative would have been relatively minor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoting Krugman:<br />
<blockquote>Suppose, for example, that Congress took the advice of those who want to ban insurance discrimination on the basis of medical history, and stopped there. What would happen next? The answer, as any health care economist will tell you, is that if Congress didn’t simultaneously require that healthy people buy insurance, there would be a “death spiral”: healthier Americans would choose not to buy insurance, leading to high premiums for those who remain, driving out more people, and so on.</p></blockquote>
<p>This statement is absolutely false.  The proof by counter-example: employer-sponsored insurance is prohibited by law from discriminating on the basis of medical history, subject to a waiting period for individuals without prior creditable coverage.  But government doesn&#8217;t require those individuals to purchase insurance, nor does it prohibit them from seeking cheaper insurance outside the workplace.  </p>
<p>Instead, favorable tax treatment gives healthy individuals incentive to participate.  Naturally, this requires the expenditure of tax dollars.</p>
<p>The scheme Krugman seems to think necessary requires a transfer of tax dollars as well, but in this case the taxes are hidden.  For healthy individuals, the difference in cost between community-rated and individually-underwritten coverage is effectively a head tax.  Congress attempts to compensate for this highly regressive tax by adjusting the premium based on income. So now you have what amounts to a shadow graduated income tax, presumably requiring a shadow IRS operating within HHS, and who knows what anyone&#8217;s effective tax rate will be. It&#8217;s no wonder the proposal grew to over 2000 pages.</p>
<p>Rather than a regressive implied tax that requires extensive compensation to turn regressive into progressive, a fairer and more honest source of funding would have been the existing tax system. That&#8217;s what 2/3 of the country already uses; compared to the annual $200 billion cost of the employer tax exclusion, the cost of a voluntary community-rated alternative would have been relatively minor.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Prescott</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/can-there-be-scaled-down-health-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-53074</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Prescott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8682#comment-53074</guid>
		<description>Hello John.  I know that you know that I am working hard to reach employees by selling HSA and creating awareness about consumerism.  Real tort reform, preventing defensive medicine, eliminating fraud and the overuse of imaging and lab facilities for extra profit will be huge contributors to reducing extraneous costs in our system.   But I’ve heard NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, ever give a solution to the real cost of increasing health insurance premiums.  Today I heard a fantastic report about a new procedure to locate and resolve a problem in an area of the brain that causes terrible seizures.  It’s a brand new procedure that totally transformed the life of the patient in the report who previously suffered frequent and uncontrollable seizures, rendering her unable to stay in a job, go to school and have appropriate social interaction.  Now she is seizure free for over one year, employed, happy and apparently healthy.  The report praised the procedure but made sure to point out its great cost.  They, of course, were referring only to the immediate fees charged and didn’t even mention the incredible cost of development in the first place.  As in most cases, over time, these procedures will become more readily available and affordable, as most everything in healthcare eventually does.  But what about the costs now?  Who should pay for this?  Insurance.  Who does pay for this?  Insurance.  Can we reasonably expect these charges will reflect in the insurance premium we all pay?  Of course.  What other choice do we have?  Do we stop advancement?  Do we halt the scientific process?  Should we stop the development of new drugs and technologies?  Of course not!  So, unless we decide to stop progress, I’ve heard NO ONE float the answer to this problem.  It’s a good and expensive problem to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello John.  I know that you know that I am working hard to reach employees by selling HSA and creating awareness about consumerism.  Real tort reform, preventing defensive medicine, eliminating fraud and the overuse of imaging and lab facilities for extra profit will be huge contributors to reducing extraneous costs in our system.   But I’ve heard NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, ever give a solution to the real cost of increasing health insurance premiums.  Today I heard a fantastic report about a new procedure to locate and resolve a problem in an area of the brain that causes terrible seizures.  It’s a brand new procedure that totally transformed the life of the patient in the report who previously suffered frequent and uncontrollable seizures, rendering her unable to stay in a job, go to school and have appropriate social interaction.  Now she is seizure free for over one year, employed, happy and apparently healthy.  The report praised the procedure but made sure to point out its great cost.  They, of course, were referring only to the immediate fees charged and didn’t even mention the incredible cost of development in the first place.  As in most cases, over time, these procedures will become more readily available and affordable, as most everything in healthcare eventually does.  But what about the costs now?  Who should pay for this?  Insurance.  Who does pay for this?  Insurance.  Can we reasonably expect these charges will reflect in the insurance premium we all pay?  Of course.  What other choice do we have?  Do we stop advancement?  Do we halt the scientific process?  Should we stop the development of new drugs and technologies?  Of course not!  So, unless we decide to stop progress, I’ve heard NO ONE float the answer to this problem.  It’s a good and expensive problem to have.</p>
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