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	<title>Comments on: Do We Need an Individual Mandate?</title>
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	<description>Health Care Policy and Reform Insights &#124; NCPA</description>
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		<title>By: Salverda</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-85723</link>
		<dc:creator>Salverda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-85723</guid>
		<description>Healthcare and Insurance are two completely different things. Healthcare is what you may need if you get sick or injured, insurance is not needed by anyone it its merely some kind of a payment scheme. People who buy health insurance are greedily hoping to receive their healthcare cheaper than, and at the expense of, those who remain uninsured. People would not have purchased insurance unless they thought that they were getting some kind of a deal. 

So don&#039;t tell me that the uninsured are the freeloaders, as a matter of truth, those who are greedily hoping to receive their healthcare cheaper, are the  actual freeloaders. Laws, that the insurance lobby have bribed into existence, force the uninsured who get sick to use the very expensive emergency rooms that are controlled (exempt from anti-trust laws) by those same insurance companies. That way, those poor uninsured sick people, even though they receive no insurance, will be billed for a whole slue of insurance related services that they did not receive! That&#039;s right, the uninsured get billed for the healthcare that they receive, and for a lot more besides, which they didn&#039;t receive. 

We uninsured people are not freeloaders you insured guys, expecting to get cheaper healthcare at our expense, are the real freeloaders. I can&#039;t afford to get care because you guys make care cost too much. You frivolously use healthcare for a runny nose and &quot;who cares&quot; how much it costs because you&#039;re covered, but you could care less how your actions are affecting others. 

I won&#039;t be showing up at a emergency room unless there is an actual emergency, and even then I&#039;ll have to pay the &quot;who cares&quot; pricing demanded by your insurance company! Why should I have to pay for the salary of the medical coder, the claims adjuster, the insurance training of receptionists, etc.

Now, obviously not everyone who buys health insurance is a greedy freeloader, many are simply fooled into it. They foolishly accept &quot;insurance&quot; instead of cash for compensation at their place of work. Of course, and by evil design, if you &quot;opt&quot; out you don&#039;t get the cash. (there are equal pay laws, but the &quot;Insurance lobby&quot; has bribed a loophole into these laws regardless of all the victims of this discrimination.) So, if you are insured, ask yourself why. Are you, greedy or foolish?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Healthcare and Insurance are two completely different things. Healthcare is what you may need if you get sick or injured, insurance is not needed by anyone it its merely some kind of a payment scheme. People who buy health insurance are greedily hoping to receive their healthcare cheaper than, and at the expense of, those who remain uninsured. People would not have purchased insurance unless they thought that they were getting some kind of a deal. </p>
<p>So don&#8217;t tell me that the uninsured are the freeloaders, as a matter of truth, those who are greedily hoping to receive their healthcare cheaper, are the  actual freeloaders. Laws, that the insurance lobby have bribed into existence, force the uninsured who get sick to use the very expensive emergency rooms that are controlled (exempt from anti-trust laws) by those same insurance companies. That way, those poor uninsured sick people, even though they receive no insurance, will be billed for a whole slue of insurance related services that they did not receive! That&#8217;s right, the uninsured get billed for the healthcare that they receive, and for a lot more besides, which they didn&#8217;t receive. </p>
<p>We uninsured people are not freeloaders you insured guys, expecting to get cheaper healthcare at our expense, are the real freeloaders. I can&#8217;t afford to get care because you guys make care cost too much. You frivolously use healthcare for a runny nose and &#8220;who cares&#8221; how much it costs because you&#8217;re covered, but you could care less how your actions are affecting others. </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t be showing up at a emergency room unless there is an actual emergency, and even then I&#8217;ll have to pay the &#8220;who cares&#8221; pricing demanded by your insurance company! Why should I have to pay for the salary of the medical coder, the claims adjuster, the insurance training of receptionists, etc.</p>
<p>Now, obviously not everyone who buys health insurance is a greedy freeloader, many are simply fooled into it. They foolishly accept &#8220;insurance&#8221; instead of cash for compensation at their place of work. Of course, and by evil design, if you &#8220;opt&#8221; out you don&#8217;t get the cash. (there are equal pay laws, but the &#8220;Insurance lobby&#8221; has bribed a loophole into these laws regardless of all the victims of this discrimination.) So, if you are insured, ask yourself why. Are you, greedy or foolish?</p>
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		<title>By: Beth Boggs</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-67930</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth Boggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 17:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-67930</guid>
		<description>It seems that this information could make a difference about how people feel about the Healthcare Reform.  I have not been able to find the connection between the mandate and pre-existing conditions explained like this.
 
The number one thing that those who oppose the healthcare reform are angry about is the individual mandate.  However, in order to address the problem of denying people with pre-existing conditions (which most people do support) there has to be a mandate, since otherwise people could just wait until they were sick to buy insurance, because they couldn&#039;t be denied for a pre-existing condition.   It would be like being allowed to buy homeowner&#039;s insurance after a house burnt down, which of course would not work.  That is what also makes the fee for not buying insurance necessary, since if people can&#039;t be denied for pre-existing conditions and there wasn&#039;t any fee for not getting insurance, people could wait until they were sick, which would actually lead to higher premiums for those who are already paying for insurance, since they would actually be paying for the other peoples&#039; treatments, since they had never paid anything previously.  This is actually what is happening when people use the ER, because they don&#039;t have insurance.  The problem of people not being able to afford the premiums is being addressed with subsidies.  This is such a complex problem that there have to be some compromises, but they are certainly worth it given that health insurance has become a financial hardship for so many people and companies.  It seems that if people realized that the mandate and fee are necessary to correct the situation for people with pre-existing conditions, rather than hearing about risk pools, they still may not be happy about it, but they would not want it  repealed.   Therefore, repealing the individual mandate and/or the fine will result in also having to repeal the ban on denying people with pre-existing conditions the right to buy insurance, including children.  CNN said that 18,000 people die each year from the inability to pay for medical care (some estimates are as high as 45,000).  Certainly no one who believes in family values could ever support putting other people in that situation.
Could you let me know if there are any places that explain the connection between the mandate/fee and the ban on denying pre-existing conditions?
 
Thanks very much, Beth Boggs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that this information could make a difference about how people feel about the Healthcare Reform.  I have not been able to find the connection between the mandate and pre-existing conditions explained like this.</p>
<p>The number one thing that those who oppose the healthcare reform are angry about is the individual mandate.  However, in order to address the problem of denying people with pre-existing conditions (which most people do support) there has to be a mandate, since otherwise people could just wait until they were sick to buy insurance, because they couldn&#8217;t be denied for a pre-existing condition.   It would be like being allowed to buy homeowner&#8217;s insurance after a house burnt down, which of course would not work.  That is what also makes the fee for not buying insurance necessary, since if people can&#8217;t be denied for pre-existing conditions and there wasn&#8217;t any fee for not getting insurance, people could wait until they were sick, which would actually lead to higher premiums for those who are already paying for insurance, since they would actually be paying for the other peoples&#8217; treatments, since they had never paid anything previously.  This is actually what is happening when people use the ER, because they don&#8217;t have insurance.  The problem of people not being able to afford the premiums is being addressed with subsidies.  This is such a complex problem that there have to be some compromises, but they are certainly worth it given that health insurance has become a financial hardship for so many people and companies.  It seems that if people realized that the mandate and fee are necessary to correct the situation for people with pre-existing conditions, rather than hearing about risk pools, they still may not be happy about it, but they would not want it  repealed.   Therefore, repealing the individual mandate and/or the fine will result in also having to repeal the ban on denying people with pre-existing conditions the right to buy insurance, including children.  CNN said that 18,000 people die each year from the inability to pay for medical care (some estimates are as high as 45,000).  Certainly no one who believes in family values could ever support putting other people in that situation.<br />
Could you let me know if there are any places that explain the connection between the mandate/fee and the ban on denying pre-existing conditions?</p>
<p>Thanks very much, Beth Boggs</p>
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		<title>By: A killer edition of Health Wonk Review &#171; Boston Health News</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-66064</link>
		<dc:creator>A killer edition of Health Wonk Review &#171; Boston Health News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-66064</guid>
		<description>[...] Center for Policy Analysis president  John Goodman  blogs “Do We need an Individual Mandate?”  Goodman explains why he thinks mandating health insurance coverage creates more problems than it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Center for Policy Analysis president  John Goodman  blogs “Do We need an Individual Mandate?”  Goodman explains why he thinks mandating health insurance coverage creates more problems than it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pelosi’s Political Skills, Individual Mandates and Studies Galore &#124; Kaiser Permanente Health Insurance Help</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-65364</link>
		<dc:creator>Pelosi’s Political Skills, Individual Mandates and Studies Galore &#124; Kaiser Permanente Health Insurance Help</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 22:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-65364</guid>
		<description>[...] John Goodman argues that &#8220;there is nothing that can be achieved with a mandate to buy health insurance that cannot be better achieved by a carefully designed system of tax subsidies. Beyond that, a requirement that everyone obtain insurance (as ObamaCare dictates) creates problems greater than the problem it is designed to solve.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] John Goodman argues that &#8220;there is nothing that can be achieved with a mandate to buy health insurance that cannot be better achieved by a carefully designed system of tax subsidies. Beyond that, a requirement that everyone obtain insurance (as ObamaCare dictates) creates problems greater than the problem it is designed to solve.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Smith</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-64533</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 16:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-64533</guid>
		<description>Doc, thanks for the clarification.  I agree that having a set of standards determining the availability of the credit is a significant departure from the principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc, thanks for the clarification.  I agree that having a set of standards determining the availability of the credit is a significant departure from the principle.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Levit</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-64527</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Levit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 15:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-64527</guid>
		<description>Don McCanne wrote about a society like ours having the general wealth that it has providing the basic necessities to all.
This general wealth is confined to a specofic subset of the set  -  the top 10%.
According to the 2007 Survey of Consumer Finances, the top 10% own 72.3% of all financial assets.
Go to:  http://www.ebri.org/pdf/notespdf/EBRI_Notes_05-May10.IAs.pdf.
Look on page 3.
Complicating the problem is distributing a basic necessity, health care, which is priced as a luxury.
If we were to do this on an equal scale for everyone, in the present environment, the wealth would be even more concentrated, with the hospitals and the physicians consuming even more of the top 10%.
Don Levit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don McCanne wrote about a society like ours having the general wealth that it has providing the basic necessities to all.<br />
This general wealth is confined to a specofic subset of the set  &#8211;  the top 10%.<br />
According to the 2007 Survey of Consumer Finances, the top 10% own 72.3% of all financial assets.<br />
Go to:  <a href="http://www.ebri.org/pdf/notespdf/EBRI_Notes_05-May10.IAs.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ebri.org/pdf/notespdf/EBRI_Notes_05-May10.IAs.pdf</a>.<br />
Look on page 3.<br />
Complicating the problem is distributing a basic necessity, health care, which is priced as a luxury.<br />
If we were to do this on an equal scale for everyone, in the present environment, the wealth would be even more concentrated, with the hospitals and the physicians consuming even more of the top 10%.<br />
Don Levit</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Butler</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-64521</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Butler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 14:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-64521</guid>
		<description>John: Good piece today. A further complication is the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), as you know, which adds a legal requirement on top of the moral obligation to help the free rider and mandates the rest of us to fund a higher level of service than we might do otherwise.  I think, too, that tax purists would say that to distort the &quot;proper&quot; code by giving a tax break to someone who buys insurance and not to the free rider who doesn&#039;t is really just a disguised penalty to enforce a de facto mandate.  But such metaphysical distinctions may be better kept for 2 am in the student lounge.  Good piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: Good piece today. A further complication is the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), as you know, which adds a legal requirement on top of the moral obligation to help the free rider and mandates the rest of us to fund a higher level of service than we might do otherwise.  I think, too, that tax purists would say that to distort the &#8220;proper&#8221; code by giving a tax break to someone who buys insurance and not to the free rider who doesn&#8217;t is really just a disguised penalty to enforce a de facto mandate.  But such metaphysical distinctions may be better kept for 2 am in the student lounge.  Good piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Gorman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-64519</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Gorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 14:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-64519</guid>
		<description>Chris, the fact that insurers set what physicians consider unreasonable prices says nothing about the utility of middlemen. Physicians still sign contracts with the insurer middlemen that you dislike, presumably because they feel that doing so makes them better off for some reason. 

Some physicians have gotten rid of insurer middlemen by refusing to sign contracts and running cash practices. 

If one judges the usefulness of insurer middlement in health systems by physician willingness to participate, it seems clear that physicians prefer private systems with insurer middlemen to government systems in which government control eliminates insurer middlemen. Consider Medicaid.

A note on Hayek: I cited a specific article by Hayek. That means that I think that the content of that particular article bears on this discussion. It does not, as I recall and as some commentators seem to think it does, mention Darwinian evolution, discuss Popper&#039;s critique of the application of natural science methods to the study of human society, or comment on various moral systems.

The article that I did cite is readily available on the Web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, the fact that insurers set what physicians consider unreasonable prices says nothing about the utility of middlemen. Physicians still sign contracts with the insurer middlemen that you dislike, presumably because they feel that doing so makes them better off for some reason. </p>
<p>Some physicians have gotten rid of insurer middlemen by refusing to sign contracts and running cash practices. </p>
<p>If one judges the usefulness of insurer middlement in health systems by physician willingness to participate, it seems clear that physicians prefer private systems with insurer middlemen to government systems in which government control eliminates insurer middlemen. Consider Medicaid.</p>
<p>A note on Hayek: I cited a specific article by Hayek. That means that I think that the content of that particular article bears on this discussion. It does not, as I recall and as some commentators seem to think it does, mention Darwinian evolution, discuss Popper&#8217;s critique of the application of natural science methods to the study of human society, or comment on various moral systems.</p>
<p>The article that I did cite is readily available on the Web.</p>
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		<title>By: John Goodman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-64517</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 14:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-64517</guid>
		<description>BTW, I am somewhat sympathetic with Hayek&#039;s essay on &quot;Why I&#039;m Not a Conservative.&quot; That&#039;s why I tend to refer to myself as a &quot;classical liberal.&quot; There is an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/whatisclassicalliberalism.pdf&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;essay&lt;/a&gt; on what this term means, accessible from our home page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I am somewhat sympathetic with Hayek&#8217;s essay on &#8220;Why I&#8217;m Not a Conservative.&#8221; That&#8217;s why I tend to refer to myself as a &#8220;classical liberal.&#8221; There is an <a href="http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/whatisclassicalliberalism.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">essay</a> on what this term means, accessible from our home page.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Bachman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/do-we-need-an-individual-mandate-2/comment-page-1/#comment-64511</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Bachman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 13:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=10817#comment-64511</guid>
		<description>Good discussions on the concept of free-riders.  The bottom line for non-economists - - The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and ObamaCare is filled with good intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good discussions on the concept of free-riders.  The bottom line for non-economists &#8211; - The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and ObamaCare is filled with good intentions.</p>
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