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	<title>Comments on: Much Ado About&#8230;What?</title>
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	<description>Health Care Policy and Reform Insights &#124; NCPA</description>
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		<title>By: Christina Warren</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51202</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51202</guid>
		<description>So most of us agree that this health care &quot;reform&quot; bill is Not something that will benefit the individual American citizen in any way. In fact, it will incur more harm for the individual, for the doctors, for businesses, for our future generations to come.  I cannot understand Congress&#039; motivation for bulldozing this bill through??  What is the real, underlying motivation for creating financial burden, a malfunctioning health care system, and historically unprecedented government control over the individual American citizen?  Is this democracy in action....or is it something much more sinister with darker intent?  How has our beloved America, the leader of the free world for whom so many have given their very lives, fallen to such depths? This was not the intent of our founding fathers and the Constitution!  WE the People seem to have no say in the eroding of our traditional democratic rights and way of life --and moreover, this is happening in the name of &quot;free choice,&quot; &quot;justice,&quot; and the right to liberty. America wake up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So most of us agree that this health care &#8220;reform&#8221; bill is Not something that will benefit the individual American citizen in any way. In fact, it will incur more harm for the individual, for the doctors, for businesses, for our future generations to come.  I cannot understand Congress&#8217; motivation for bulldozing this bill through??  What is the real, underlying motivation for creating financial burden, a malfunctioning health care system, and historically unprecedented government control over the individual American citizen?  Is this democracy in action&#8230;.or is it something much more sinister with darker intent?  How has our beloved America, the leader of the free world for whom so many have given their very lives, fallen to such depths? This was not the intent of our founding fathers and the Constitution!  WE the People seem to have no say in the eroding of our traditional democratic rights and way of life &#8211;and moreover, this is happening in the name of &#8220;free choice,&#8221; &#8220;justice,&#8221; and the right to liberty. America wake up!</p>
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		<title>By: Christina Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51184</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 12:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51184</guid>
		<description>Most of the people around here are not that worried about the health care bill, but you guys are. Me too. I have followed and been influenced by Goodman for a long time. Read my take, published Wednesday in the Greenville News (SC) if you will- I compare Harry to the Wizard of OZ (OZ = Opportunists and Zanies). An issue not covered in my article, but aluded to concerns Europe and Canada. Doesn&#039;t everyone know that they could not enjoy the high standard of care at the price they pay without the United States&#039; free market as an outlet for the rich and a source of subsidized drugs?

Christina Jeffrey (congressional candidate, SC-4)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the people around here are not that worried about the health care bill, but you guys are. Me too. I have followed and been influenced by Goodman for a long time. Read my take, published Wednesday in the Greenville News (SC) if you will- I compare Harry to the Wizard of OZ (OZ = Opportunists and Zanies). An issue not covered in my article, but aluded to concerns Europe and Canada. Doesn&#8217;t everyone know that they could not enjoy the high standard of care at the price they pay without the United States&#8217; free market as an outlet for the rich and a source of subsidized drugs?</p>
<p>Christina Jeffrey (congressional candidate, SC-4)</p>
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		<title>By: Josephine Legno</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51121</link>
		<dc:creator>Josephine Legno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51121</guid>
		<description>Not EVERYBODY in America will have the same health care- CONGRESS WILL NOT. They will still have the best health care in the world at our expense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not EVERYBODY in America will have the same health care- CONGRESS WILL NOT. They will still have the best health care in the world at our expense.</p>
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		<title>By: artk</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51081</link>
		<dc:creator>artk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51081</guid>
		<description>First, I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve conceded that the European health care system outcomes are pretty much comparable to ours.    It’s really quite tiresome to hear the constant commentary about being in Europe is a death sentence.  As you’re well aware, we do better then other countries in some outcomes, worse in others.  I would, however, challenge you on some of your statistics. 

We also throw people out of the hospital pretty fast, the average acute stay is 5.5 days, much shorter the Germany, Canada, Switzerland, and the UK; but longer then France or Sweden.  Is that rationing from not enough hospital beds, or better care, or unnecessary admissions?

Nurses per capita: we have 10.6 nurses per 1000, more then the UK with 10/1000 or Germany with 9.9/1000, or France with 7.7/1000.  By your productivity metric, then France, Germany and the UK is more productive.  


You seem to have limited your definition of productivity to output relative to just direct labor.  Of course, most other people define productivity as output relative to total cost.  Without getting into the issue of equality of access to health care which our system fails at miserably, our costs are 50% more as a percentage of GDP then the next most expensive system in Switzerland. By that metric, we have the least productive health care system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve conceded that the European health care system outcomes are pretty much comparable to ours.    It’s really quite tiresome to hear the constant commentary about being in Europe is a death sentence.  As you’re well aware, we do better then other countries in some outcomes, worse in others.  I would, however, challenge you on some of your statistics. </p>
<p>We also throw people out of the hospital pretty fast, the average acute stay is 5.5 days, much shorter the Germany, Canada, Switzerland, and the UK; but longer then France or Sweden.  Is that rationing from not enough hospital beds, or better care, or unnecessary admissions?</p>
<p>Nurses per capita: we have 10.6 nurses per 1000, more then the UK with 10/1000 or Germany with 9.9/1000, or France with 7.7/1000.  By your productivity metric, then France, Germany and the UK is more productive.  </p>
<p>You seem to have limited your definition of productivity to output relative to just direct labor.  Of course, most other people define productivity as output relative to total cost.  Without getting into the issue of equality of access to health care which our system fails at miserably, our costs are 50% more as a percentage of GDP then the next most expensive system in Switzerland. By that metric, we have the least productive health care system.</p>
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		<title>By: John Goodman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51048</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51048</guid>
		<description>Artk is right about the physicians. We have fewer per capita than the European average. We also have fewer nurses, hospital beds, admissions and just about everything other than technology. Which means that we are producing the same or better outcomes with fewer resouces! As inefficent as our system looks to us, it is actually more efficient than the average European country.

None of this has anything to do with rationing however. Rationing problems arise when prices are suppressed. And since they tend to be slightly more suppressed in other countries (and especially where the supply of technology is tightly controlled)the rationing problems are much greater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artk is right about the physicians. We have fewer per capita than the European average. We also have fewer nurses, hospital beds, admissions and just about everything other than technology. Which means that we are producing the same or better outcomes with fewer resouces! As inefficent as our system looks to us, it is actually more efficient than the average European country.</p>
<p>None of this has anything to do with rationing however. Rationing problems arise when prices are suppressed. And since they tend to be slightly more suppressed in other countries (and especially where the supply of technology is tightly controlled)the rationing problems are much greater.</p>
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		<title>By: artk</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51046</link>
		<dc:creator>artk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51046</guid>
		<description>eppie w, I know you&#039;re repeating what I&#039;ve often seen, how &quot;socialized medicine&quot; has caused a shortage of doctors in other countries.  I would argue the opposite, our health care system is the one with a shortage of doctors.

The US has 2.4 physicians per thousand, growing at a rate of 1% a year.  You may be correct in stating that we have more then Canada, which has 2.2/1000 but a much lower growth rate at .2% a year.  If you look in the European countries that have universal health care, pretty much all them have more physicians.  A few examples: Switzerland 3.9/1000 growing at 1.5%; Sweden 3.6/1000 growing 1.4%; Germany 3.5/1000 growing 1.5%; even the UK has more doctors 2.5/1000 growing at 2.5% a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eppie w, I know you&#8217;re repeating what I&#8217;ve often seen, how &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221; has caused a shortage of doctors in other countries.  I would argue the opposite, our health care system is the one with a shortage of doctors.</p>
<p>The US has 2.4 physicians per thousand, growing at a rate of 1% a year.  You may be correct in stating that we have more then Canada, which has 2.2/1000 but a much lower growth rate at .2% a year.  If you look in the European countries that have universal health care, pretty much all them have more physicians.  A few examples: Switzerland 3.9/1000 growing at 1.5%; Sweden 3.6/1000 growing 1.4%; Germany 3.5/1000 growing 1.5%; even the UK has more doctors 2.5/1000 growing at 2.5% a year.</p>
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		<title>By: Joanna  M. Robbins</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51042</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanna  M. Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 08:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51042</guid>
		<description>I am a 61 year old grandmother and this health care debate has enlightened me so much this year. I have never paid very much attention to politics, I&#039;m sad to say. Meanwhile, our constitutional republic has been slipping away, year after year, and it makes no difference which party was in power. This is our last chance to save our country from the abyss of fascism. This truly is a bill that makes no logical sense except to gain control - complete control - over people by the elitists in government. We The People must remind them they work for us in the only way we can. Insist on term limits once we kick every single one out who is in Washington right now. No more careers and gold plated retirements and health care for these phonies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a 61 year old grandmother and this health care debate has enlightened me so much this year. I have never paid very much attention to politics, I&#8217;m sad to say. Meanwhile, our constitutional republic has been slipping away, year after year, and it makes no difference which party was in power. This is our last chance to save our country from the abyss of fascism. This truly is a bill that makes no logical sense except to gain control &#8211; complete control &#8211; over people by the elitists in government. We The People must remind them they work for us in the only way we can. Insist on term limits once we kick every single one out who is in Washington right now. No more careers and gold plated retirements and health care for these phonies.</p>
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		<title>By: eppie w.</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51037</link>
		<dc:creator>eppie w.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 06:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51037</guid>
		<description>I agree with this post.  Also, this bill does nothing to address quality of care.  If they are able to indeed to resurrect the dinosaur of socialized medicine that has failed in so many countries, first of all there will be an even greater shortage of doctors, because many doctors are saving up their cash and plan to either bail out or go to a cash only practice.  Then I wonder how people are use to getting hip replacements and heart surgery within days of injury or illness will like being told they have to wait six months to see a specialist.  I can see that going over really well with middle class to upper middle class baby boomers.

Do people from Canada keep coming over to this country for medical care because they like the view?

In that huge monster of a bill it talks somewhere about giving extra money to primary care physicians to motivate them and help them phase into the new health care systems.

First of all many of those primary care guys will be gone because of the huge doctor shortage brought on by being forced to practice socialized medicine.  Secondly, there is no provision for specialists such as neurologists, cardiologists, etc. who do a lion&#039;s share of the business in treating people with chronic conditions like diabetes, heart disease, etc.

Maybe they will manage to get that mess of a bill passed but when things get personal and affect people&#039;s lives, I think Americans will stand up and vote all of those congressmen who have their heads in the clouds out of office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with this post.  Also, this bill does nothing to address quality of care.  If they are able to indeed to resurrect the dinosaur of socialized medicine that has failed in so many countries, first of all there will be an even greater shortage of doctors, because many doctors are saving up their cash and plan to either bail out or go to a cash only practice.  Then I wonder how people are use to getting hip replacements and heart surgery within days of injury or illness will like being told they have to wait six months to see a specialist.  I can see that going over really well with middle class to upper middle class baby boomers.</p>
<p>Do people from Canada keep coming over to this country for medical care because they like the view?</p>
<p>In that huge monster of a bill it talks somewhere about giving extra money to primary care physicians to motivate them and help them phase into the new health care systems.</p>
<p>First of all many of those primary care guys will be gone because of the huge doctor shortage brought on by being forced to practice socialized medicine.  Secondly, there is no provision for specialists such as neurologists, cardiologists, etc. who do a lion&#8217;s share of the business in treating people with chronic conditions like diabetes, heart disease, etc.</p>
<p>Maybe they will manage to get that mess of a bill passed but when things get personal and affect people&#8217;s lives, I think Americans will stand up and vote all of those congressmen who have their heads in the clouds out of office.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51020</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51020</guid>
		<description>Artk view on insurance needs correcting. A real price (a competive market price) for insurance would equal the expected cost the newly insured person adds to the insurance pool. Only if people face real prices for risk can they make rational decisions about when to insure, for what events and for how much.

If prices and not accurate, the underchaged will overinsure, the overcharged will overinsure and if people can game the system they will go bare -- paying no premium whatsoever -- until they get sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artk view on insurance needs correcting. A real price (a competive market price) for insurance would equal the expected cost the newly insured person adds to the insurance pool. Only if people face real prices for risk can they make rational decisions about when to insure, for what events and for how much.</p>
<p>If prices and not accurate, the underchaged will overinsure, the overcharged will overinsure and if people can game the system they will go bare &#8212; paying no premium whatsoever &#8212; until they get sick.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Francis Kendrick</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/much-ado-about-what/comment-page-1/#comment-51017</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Francis Kendrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=7843#comment-51017</guid>
		<description>Emphasis in the health care debate has been on more insurance for more people. Big mistake!

Ronald Reagan said “In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.&quot;  (First Inaugural Address).  Recently, John Stossel of Fox News, stated that insurance is the problem with current health care. 

Reduction in the cost of health care requires reduction in the involvement of a third party payer. There is no reason why every visit to a doctor should generate an insurance claim. No thinking person would give another person $125 to pay their $100 utility bill. That is what happens with traditional health care insurance. Contrast that with other types of insurance, in which the insured rarely if ever files a claim.

The cost of processing a claim is relatively independent of the size of the claim. High deductibles would reduce the number of small claims and reduce the  amount of the insurance premium. 

Many primary care physicians claim that approximately thirty percent of their patient visits do not require professional attention. This degree of overutilization occurs largely because it is being reimbursed by insurance and is reflected in higher insurance premiums. High deductibles would reduce the level of overutilization because patients would be using their own funds for fees within the deductible amount. 

Fraud detection and its penalties require costly efforts at protection. Fraud is most likely to occur when there is a third party payer. Fraud is unlikely when a transaction involves only a physician and a patient. Fraud reduction also allows reduction in the amount of the insurance premium.

 Overhead incurred by the physician is increased when a third party payer is involved and must be reflected in the fee schedule, another reason for high cost of insurance premiums. 

When a third party payer assumes the risk of a need for health care, incentive is lacking for the insured to remain healthy and avoid the need for care, leading once more to increased insurance premiums.

Another reason for excessive cost of health care is defensive medicine, prescription of additional procedures employed to guard against frivolous malpractice claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emphasis in the health care debate has been on more insurance for more people. Big mistake!</p>
<p>Ronald Reagan said “In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.&#8221;  (First Inaugural Address).  Recently, John Stossel of Fox News, stated that insurance is the problem with current health care. </p>
<p>Reduction in the cost of health care requires reduction in the involvement of a third party payer. There is no reason why every visit to a doctor should generate an insurance claim. No thinking person would give another person $125 to pay their $100 utility bill. That is what happens with traditional health care insurance. Contrast that with other types of insurance, in which the insured rarely if ever files a claim.</p>
<p>The cost of processing a claim is relatively independent of the size of the claim. High deductibles would reduce the number of small claims and reduce the  amount of the insurance premium. </p>
<p>Many primary care physicians claim that approximately thirty percent of their patient visits do not require professional attention. This degree of overutilization occurs largely because it is being reimbursed by insurance and is reflected in higher insurance premiums. High deductibles would reduce the level of overutilization because patients would be using their own funds for fees within the deductible amount. </p>
<p>Fraud detection and its penalties require costly efforts at protection. Fraud is most likely to occur when there is a third party payer. Fraud is unlikely when a transaction involves only a physician and a patient. Fraud reduction also allows reduction in the amount of the insurance premium.</p>
<p> Overhead incurred by the physician is increased when a third party payer is involved and must be reflected in the fee schedule, another reason for high cost of insurance premiums. </p>
<p>When a third party payer assumes the risk of a need for health care, incentive is lacking for the insured to remain healthy and avoid the need for care, leading once more to increased insurance premiums.</p>
<p>Another reason for excessive cost of health care is defensive medicine, prescription of additional procedures employed to guard against frivolous malpractice claims.</p>
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