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	<title>Comments on: Public Option Health Plan Fails Modeling Test in Colorado</title>
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	<description>Health Care Policy and Reform Insights &#124; NCPA</description>
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		<title>By: Lourdes Momeni</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-67749</link>
		<dc:creator>Lourdes Momeni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-67749</guid>
		<description>I just lately purchased a refurbished Dolphin Diagnostic pool cleaner. I was a bit of more than involved after studying some of the negative reviews. Nevertheless, I&#039;m completely satisfied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just lately purchased a refurbished Dolphin Diagnostic pool cleaner. I was a bit of more than involved after studying some of the negative reviews. Nevertheless, I&#8217;m completely satisfied.</p>
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		<title>By: Independence Institute: Jon Caldara &#187; Wednesday Wrap-Up</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42733</link>
		<dc:creator>Independence Institute: Jon Caldara &#187; Wednesday Wrap-Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 23:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42733</guid>
		<description>[...] transparency, we really could use it! ***Health Care Policy Center director Linda Gorman makes the case against the &#8220;public option&#8221; when it comes to providing health coverage. Makes me wonder, do people really want their doctors [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] transparency, we really could use it! ***Health Care Policy Center director Linda Gorman makes the case against the &#8220;public option&#8221; when it comes to providing health coverage. Makes me wonder, do people really want their doctors [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Greiner</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42593</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Greiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 19:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42593</guid>
		<description>Of course Blue Cross of Mass. has qualifying insurance because they help write the legislation.

There is not much competition to Blue Cross of Mass. so the premiums are really high.

The Blues own Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.  Remember when Kerry was running for President and kept saying, &quot;I have Blue Cross.&quot;

Got the blues, paying way to much for health insurance?

Bart, in Mighigan you are correct.  By state law there are no exclusionary riders so these people (with small medical problems) are just declines.  Guess what company gets these declines.  If you guessed Blue Cross of Mighigan you would be correct.

Blue Cross of Mighigan was a big supporter of Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) in her last election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Blue Cross of Mass. has qualifying insurance because they help write the legislation.</p>
<p>There is not much competition to Blue Cross of Mass. so the premiums are really high.</p>
<p>The Blues own Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.  Remember when Kerry was running for President and kept saying, &#8220;I have Blue Cross.&#8221;</p>
<p>Got the blues, paying way to much for health insurance?</p>
<p>Bart, in Mighigan you are correct.  By state law there are no exclusionary riders so these people (with small medical problems) are just declines.  Guess what company gets these declines.  If you guessed Blue Cross of Mighigan you would be correct.</p>
<p>Blue Cross of Mighigan was a big supporter of Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) in her last election.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Gorman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42582</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Gorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 16:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42582</guid>
		<description>Bart, we are not discussing optimal reforms here. The numbers that I gave are indicative of the current situation with a lower private insurance premium cost for the medically underwritten policies and a higher out-of-pocket one for the medically uninsurable in an already existing public plan.

The proponents of yet another public plan claim that they are offering an option that would improve the current situation. The question, in view of the existing prices and plans, is why they think that?

Proponents of more public plans persist in pushing them while dismissing all other possible reforms. They fail to explain why another public plan is desirable. Lewin&#039;s Colorado modeling suggests that there is little need for one. Finally, existing public plans make medical care difficult to access, have high costs, and are mired in financial mismanagement that, in the case of Medicare, has led to insolvency.

Judging from the results in Massachusetts, individual mandates would adopt requirements that would make many existing health insurance policies invalid for satisfying the mandate.

The maximum deductible allowed in Massachusetts, for example, is lower than about half of the policies purchased in the individual market according to the 2007 AHIP survey. 

An individual mandate means that the government gets to define what health insurance is, and can force you to purchase whatever some committee determines that you need. Existing evidence suggests that the people who want to do that want different things than a large fraction of people who actually purchase their own health insurance. See my post on this at at http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/designing-health-insurance-evidence-from-massachusetts/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart, we are not discussing optimal reforms here. The numbers that I gave are indicative of the current situation with a lower private insurance premium cost for the medically underwritten policies and a higher out-of-pocket one for the medically uninsurable in an already existing public plan.</p>
<p>The proponents of yet another public plan claim that they are offering an option that would improve the current situation. The question, in view of the existing prices and plans, is why they think that?</p>
<p>Proponents of more public plans persist in pushing them while dismissing all other possible reforms. They fail to explain why another public plan is desirable. Lewin&#8217;s Colorado modeling suggests that there is little need for one. Finally, existing public plans make medical care difficult to access, have high costs, and are mired in financial mismanagement that, in the case of Medicare, has led to insolvency.</p>
<p>Judging from the results in Massachusetts, individual mandates would adopt requirements that would make many existing health insurance policies invalid for satisfying the mandate.</p>
<p>The maximum deductible allowed in Massachusetts, for example, is lower than about half of the policies purchased in the individual market according to the 2007 AHIP survey. </p>
<p>An individual mandate means that the government gets to define what health insurance is, and can force you to purchase whatever some committee determines that you need. Existing evidence suggests that the people who want to do that want different things than a large fraction of people who actually purchase their own health insurance. See my post on this at at <a href="http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/designing-health-insurance-evidence-from-massachusetts/" rel="nofollow">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/designing-health-insurance-evidence-from-massachusetts/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42566</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 22:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42566</guid>
		<description>Linda: Again, I was not advocating for a public option, and certainly not for the Colorado public plan.  I was mainly trying to establish what the figures being compared really meant.  My initial impression was that you were saying that $212 was the per-capita cost to insure everyone in Colorado, and $250 the equivalent cost for the public plan.  In retrospect, it&#039;s obvious that neither is the case.  The $212 average cost was for a narrow subset of the population (unless individuals without private coverage are not &quot;persons&quot;) and the $250 is a heavily subsidized number not indicative of the true cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda: Again, I was not advocating for a public option, and certainly not for the Colorado public plan.  I was mainly trying to establish what the figures being compared really meant.  My initial impression was that you were saying that $212 was the per-capita cost to insure everyone in Colorado, and $250 the equivalent cost for the public plan.  In retrospect, it&#8217;s obvious that neither is the case.  The $212 average cost was for a narrow subset of the population (unless individuals without private coverage are not &#8220;persons&#8221;) and the $250 is a heavily subsidized number not indicative of the true cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42565</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 21:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42565</guid>
		<description>P.S. I would assume that employer-provided coverage would satisfy the proposed individual mandates.  I haven&#039;t seen anything to the contrary.

I&#039;m not in favor of the individual mandate, at least not yet, but to me it&#039;s much less onerous than some of the other proposals, such as an employer mandate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. I would assume that employer-provided coverage would satisfy the proposed individual mandates.  I haven&#8217;t seen anything to the contrary.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not in favor of the individual mandate, at least not yet, but to me it&#8217;s much less onerous than some of the other proposals, such as an employer mandate.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42563</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 21:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42563</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Well if they impose a tax on me for insurance when I have it through employer anyway to cover someone else that doesn’t, that is infringing on my freedom.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But I&#039;m paying taxes to make up for your tax-free employer-provided coverage.  Doesn&#039;t that infringe on my freedom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Well if they impose a tax on me for insurance when I have it through employer anyway to cover someone else that doesn’t, that is infringing on my freedom.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>But I&#8217;m paying taxes to make up for your tax-free employer-provided coverage.  Doesn&#8217;t that infringe on my freedom?</p>
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		<title>By: tina miller</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42553</link>
		<dc:creator>tina miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 20:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42553</guid>
		<description>This health insurance thing in PA is now a huge thorn in residents side. We keep getting conflicting info that they are mandating coverage for all regardless. First who on earth said healthcare is a right? That is like saying vacation time is a right. The only reason insurance is where it is....is because of govt interference a few decades ago when they regulated maximum wages. For instance John Doe Cleaners in competition with Suzy Doe Cleaners wants good employees so they pay for good employees. Oh but big bad govt steps in and says maximum pay is XYZ. So how do the 2 cleaners compete to get the good employees? They had to be inventive. So John Doe Cleaners says...hey I will pay for you personal health insurance and offer 1 week paid vacation. Suzy ups the anti with paying for you personal health ins and your families and 2 weeks paid vacation. Thus health ins by employers was born and now has turned into this huge conglomerate all cuz the govt stuck their nose somewhere it doesn&#039;t belong. Nothing in the constitution says I have a right to vacation time, health insurance, driving a green car, gas, roof over my head, food in my stomach...you get the point. It only allots me the freedom of speech, freedom to be armed and in essence to be FREE. Well if they impose a tax on me for insurance when I have it through employer anyway to cover someone else that doesn&#039;t, that is infringing on my freedom. If someone out there can&#039;t take care of their own insurance then maybe they should find a job that covers it. Or find a job that pays more to pay their own insurance. Why should I have to take care of everyone else. I take care of myself and that is the only way it should be. We are responsible for our ownselves and our own successes and failures. This country is so out of control with this entitlement and fair doctrine and I have utterly had it. I guarantee if this keeps up we are going to have war here. Does govt understand how fed up people are? I don&#039;t think so cuz they keep up with this. Why does the govt think so m any have bought guns? Why do they think gun sales are up? Have they ever once stopped to think what is going thru the average Americans mind? Well I know cuz I am an average American. YOU WILL NOT TAKE AWAY MY FREEDOM AND TELL ME HOW AND WHAT TO DO WITH MY MONEY AND MY LIFE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This health insurance thing in PA is now a huge thorn in residents side. We keep getting conflicting info that they are mandating coverage for all regardless. First who on earth said healthcare is a right? That is like saying vacation time is a right. The only reason insurance is where it is&#8230;.is because of govt interference a few decades ago when they regulated maximum wages. For instance John Doe Cleaners in competition with Suzy Doe Cleaners wants good employees so they pay for good employees. Oh but big bad govt steps in and says maximum pay is XYZ. So how do the 2 cleaners compete to get the good employees? They had to be inventive. So John Doe Cleaners says&#8230;hey I will pay for you personal health insurance and offer 1 week paid vacation. Suzy ups the anti with paying for you personal health ins and your families and 2 weeks paid vacation. Thus health ins by employers was born and now has turned into this huge conglomerate all cuz the govt stuck their nose somewhere it doesn&#8217;t belong. Nothing in the constitution says I have a right to vacation time, health insurance, driving a green car, gas, roof over my head, food in my stomach&#8230;you get the point. It only allots me the freedom of speech, freedom to be armed and in essence to be FREE. Well if they impose a tax on me for insurance when I have it through employer anyway to cover someone else that doesn&#8217;t, that is infringing on my freedom. If someone out there can&#8217;t take care of their own insurance then maybe they should find a job that covers it. Or find a job that pays more to pay their own insurance. Why should I have to take care of everyone else. I take care of myself and that is the only way it should be. We are responsible for our ownselves and our own successes and failures. This country is so out of control with this entitlement and fair doctrine and I have utterly had it. I guarantee if this keeps up we are going to have war here. Does govt understand how fed up people are? I don&#8217;t think so cuz they keep up with this. Why does the govt think so m any have bought guns? Why do they think gun sales are up? Have they ever once stopped to think what is going thru the average Americans mind? Well I know cuz I am an average American. YOU WILL NOT TAKE AWAY MY FREEDOM AND TELL ME HOW AND WHAT TO DO WITH MY MONEY AND MY LIFE.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42549</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 20:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42549</guid>
		<description>Ron: I had considered leaving out the reference to cost of underwriting, since it made no difference whether average cost was $190 or $212.  But there certainly would be some savings if underwriting were unnecessary.  I can&#039;t recall where I saw the statement that overhead for underwriting was in the double digits, but if you don&#039;t like the 10 percent figure feel free to cite a more accurate one.

For policies that guarantee renewal at class average rates, I would assume that underwriting costs continue until such time as the individual&#039;s risk rises above class average.

Note that I wasn&#039;t really advocating for the public option, I was only trying to establish the actual cost of such a proposal for comparison purposes.

But here&#039;s a thought exercise: suppose everyone purchases individual coverage at birth, with guaranteed renewal at class-average rates, and maintains that coverage for life.  Eventually some people will develop chronic conditions and their risks will become greater than class-average, but their premiums will only increase to class average.  This will create a deficit in funding, so rates for low-risk individuals will have to rise as well.  Wouldn&#039;t the end result be the same as community rating (or modified community rating, depending on how &quot;class average&quot; is defined)?

For &quot;oddball events&quot; just look at the questions asked on an insurance application.  &quot;Have you had a BP reading above 140/90 in the last 10 years?&quot;  &quot;Have you been treated for a prostate problem in the last 5 years?&quot;  These could be spurious events that have nothing to do with a long-term condition.  For &quot;relatively minor chronic condition&quot;, try past diagnosis for asthma, depression, hypertension, etc.  I say &quot;relatively minor&quot; because I am not talking about heart failure or &quot;a head full of tumors&quot;.  Any single event or chronic condition may only result in a premium increase of 25-50 percent, but stack up two or three of them and you are uninsurable.

I&#039;m all for individual high-deductible policies, with or without the HSA.  I agree with you that anyone who can get one should consider doing so, and dismiss the employer tax break as false economy.  But these are already available in most states, so I don&#039;t see where any policy reform is required in this area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron: I had considered leaving out the reference to cost of underwriting, since it made no difference whether average cost was $190 or $212.  But there certainly would be some savings if underwriting were unnecessary.  I can&#8217;t recall where I saw the statement that overhead for underwriting was in the double digits, but if you don&#8217;t like the 10 percent figure feel free to cite a more accurate one.</p>
<p>For policies that guarantee renewal at class average rates, I would assume that underwriting costs continue until such time as the individual&#8217;s risk rises above class average.</p>
<p>Note that I wasn&#8217;t really advocating for the public option, I was only trying to establish the actual cost of such a proposal for comparison purposes.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s a thought exercise: suppose everyone purchases individual coverage at birth, with guaranteed renewal at class-average rates, and maintains that coverage for life.  Eventually some people will develop chronic conditions and their risks will become greater than class-average, but their premiums will only increase to class average.  This will create a deficit in funding, so rates for low-risk individuals will have to rise as well.  Wouldn&#8217;t the end result be the same as community rating (or modified community rating, depending on how &#8220;class average&#8221; is defined)?</p>
<p>For &#8220;oddball events&#8221; just look at the questions asked on an insurance application.  &#8220;Have you had a BP reading above 140/90 in the last 10 years?&#8221;  &#8220;Have you been treated for a prostate problem in the last 5 years?&#8221;  These could be spurious events that have nothing to do with a long-term condition.  For &#8220;relatively minor chronic condition&#8221;, try past diagnosis for asthma, depression, hypertension, etc.  I say &#8220;relatively minor&#8221; because I am not talking about heart failure or &#8220;a head full of tumors&#8221;.  Any single event or chronic condition may only result in a premium increase of 25-50 percent, but stack up two or three of them and you are uninsurable.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for individual high-deductible policies, with or without the HSA.  I agree with you that anyone who can get one should consider doing so, and dismiss the employer tax break as false economy.  But these are already available in most states, so I don&#8217;t see where any policy reform is required in this area.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Gorman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/public-option-health-plan-fails-modeling-test-in-colorado/comment-page-1/#comment-42548</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Gorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 19:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=3383#comment-42548</guid>
		<description>And, unlike private insurers, Medicare is insolvent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, unlike private insurers, Medicare is insolvent.</p>
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