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	<title>Comments on: Real Health Care Reform: Local Provisions for After-Hours Care</title>
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	<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/</link>
	<description>Health Care Policy and Reform Insights &#124; NCPA</description>
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		<title>By: Hughes Net</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-73216</link>
		<dc:creator>Hughes Net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-73216</guid>
		<description>Great read. Just a heads up, your Feed option is not working properly in Flock operating on Windows7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great read. Just a heads up, your Feed option is not working properly in Flock operating on Windows7.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Ellen Horwitz</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-53543</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Ellen Horwitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-53543</guid>
		<description>I would both echo and update Linda&#039;s post.  At latest count (just yesterday) there are 8774 urgent care centers in the country.  While most are not open 24/7, they have extended night and weekend hours and do see a broad scope of conditions.
The $275 visit would be a pretty expensive visit in an urgent care center - if you had a fracture that required x-rays and a cast, for instance.  In studies that have looked at ER vs. UC costs (for the same kind of visit - which is about 29% of what was seen in the ER) the difference is still about 3 times an urgent care visit for the same thing.

I am delighted to see the original blog post acknowledging the huge, albeit quiet, contribution urgent care centers make to the delivery of health care in the U.S.  

Lou Ellen Horwitz
Executive Director
Urgent Care Association of America</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would both echo and update Linda&#8217;s post.  At latest count (just yesterday) there are 8774 urgent care centers in the country.  While most are not open 24/7, they have extended night and weekend hours and do see a broad scope of conditions.<br />
The $275 visit would be a pretty expensive visit in an urgent care center &#8211; if you had a fracture that required x-rays and a cast, for instance.  In studies that have looked at ER vs. UC costs (for the same kind of visit &#8211; which is about 29% of what was seen in the ER) the difference is still about 3 times an urgent care visit for the same thing.</p>
<p>I am delighted to see the original blog post acknowledging the huge, albeit quiet, contribution urgent care centers make to the delivery of health care in the U.S.  </p>
<p>Lou Ellen Horwitz<br />
Executive Director<br />
Urgent Care Association of America</p>
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		<title>By: After-Hours Care in the UK: Available on Paper, But Not in Practice &#124; Linda Gorman &#124; NCPA</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-53147</link>
		<dc:creator>After-Hours Care in the UK: Available on Paper, But Not in Practice &#124; Linda Gorman &#124; NCPA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-53147</guid>
		<description>[...] an earlier post on this blog pointed out, Commonwealth appears to ignore the fact that after-hours care in the U.S. is increasingly specialized. Rather than relying on their primary care physicians, who, after all, need their sleep, U.S. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an earlier post on this blog pointed out, Commonwealth appears to ignore the fact that after-hours care in the U.S. is increasingly specialized. Rather than relying on their primary care physicians, who, after all, need their sleep, U.S. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Gorman</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-52968</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Gorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-52968</guid>
		<description>artk:

The point is that the Commonwealth metric consisted of asking regular primary care practices whether they provided after hours care. When they said they didn&#039;t, Commonwealth concluded that the US health care system is inferior.

Accuracy would dictate that Commonwealth researchers recognize that in the US system primary care practices don&#039;t offer after hours care because there are practices that specialize in it. This may be a more efficient way of organizing a health system than the European model due to the efficiency advantages of specialization.

The number of urgent care practices is rather more than the &quot;handful&quot; you referred to. The Urgent Care Association of America says that in 2008 there were 8,000 urgent care centers in the US. There were about 4,600 emergency rooms.

Rather than consider whether the 8,000 urgent care practices provide adequate after hours care, Commonwealth appeared to assume that because primary care practices don&#039;t keep late hours, people in the US have no access to health care outside the emergency room.

The comments about ER costs and the choices of the poor are not germane in this context. Commonwealth was surveying primary care practices, not ERs. Primary care practices are for routine care that people routinely expect to pay for.

Ability to pay is also not at issue here. Cmmonwealth was looking at population medical care, not specifically medical care for the poor. In the US, 80+ percent of people have some sort of third party payment health insurance. A significant fraction of the remainder is eligible for Medicaid, which people can enroll in after they need health care. 

The comment that urgent care centers are not as well equipped as an ER is also not applicable as the Commonwealth study was limited to primary care practices which may not be as well equipped as an urgent care center.

Finally, it is not clear that your statements about ER payment policies is correct. Hospitals are becoming much more sophisticated about collecting from ER patients whether or not they plead poverty when they arrive. 

Another hospital trend is a determination to collect of cash payments if you want treatment at the ER and your condition isn&#039;t serious. The ER staff will do free triage. If your condition isn&#039;t serious, an increasing number of hospitals will then demand cash to continue. People who demand free care may be offered a regular appointment at the hospital&#039;s federally qualified clinic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>artk:</p>
<p>The point is that the Commonwealth metric consisted of asking regular primary care practices whether they provided after hours care. When they said they didn&#8217;t, Commonwealth concluded that the US health care system is inferior.</p>
<p>Accuracy would dictate that Commonwealth researchers recognize that in the US system primary care practices don&#8217;t offer after hours care because there are practices that specialize in it. This may be a more efficient way of organizing a health system than the European model due to the efficiency advantages of specialization.</p>
<p>The number of urgent care practices is rather more than the &#8220;handful&#8221; you referred to. The Urgent Care Association of America says that in 2008 there were 8,000 urgent care centers in the US. There were about 4,600 emergency rooms.</p>
<p>Rather than consider whether the 8,000 urgent care practices provide adequate after hours care, Commonwealth appeared to assume that because primary care practices don&#8217;t keep late hours, people in the US have no access to health care outside the emergency room.</p>
<p>The comments about ER costs and the choices of the poor are not germane in this context. Commonwealth was surveying primary care practices, not ERs. Primary care practices are for routine care that people routinely expect to pay for.</p>
<p>Ability to pay is also not at issue here. Cmmonwealth was looking at population medical care, not specifically medical care for the poor. In the US, 80+ percent of people have some sort of third party payment health insurance. A significant fraction of the remainder is eligible for Medicaid, which people can enroll in after they need health care. </p>
<p>The comment that urgent care centers are not as well equipped as an ER is also not applicable as the Commonwealth study was limited to primary care practices which may not be as well equipped as an urgent care center.</p>
<p>Finally, it is not clear that your statements about ER payment policies is correct. Hospitals are becoming much more sophisticated about collecting from ER patients whether or not they plead poverty when they arrive. </p>
<p>Another hospital trend is a determination to collect of cash payments if you want treatment at the ER and your condition isn&#8217;t serious. The ER staff will do free triage. If your condition isn&#8217;t serious, an increasing number of hospitals will then demand cash to continue. People who demand free care may be offered a regular appointment at the hospital&#8217;s federally qualified clinic.</p>
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		<title>By: artk</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-52820</link>
		<dc:creator>artk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-52820</guid>
		<description>If you don&#039;t have the money or insurance, an emergency room charges you nothing.  If you have the money, a hospital charges you the same if you pay on the spot or if they send you a bill. 

   I&#039;m sure a hospital emergency room would be more expensive, but hey aren&#039;t running an emergency room. They have very a limited scope and don&#039;t have equipment or resources of a hospital emergency room.  They are more like a free standing clinic that&#039;s open all night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t have the money or insurance, an emergency room charges you nothing.  If you have the money, a hospital charges you the same if you pay on the spot or if they send you a bill. </p>
<p>   I&#8217;m sure a hospital emergency room would be more expensive, but hey aren&#8217;t running an emergency room. They have very a limited scope and don&#8217;t have equipment or resources of a hospital emergency room.  They are more like a free standing clinic that&#8217;s open all night.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-52812</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-52812</guid>
		<description>artk: What do you think you would be charged for the same bundle of services in a hospital emergency room?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>artk: What do you think you would be charged for the same bundle of services in a hospital emergency room?</p>
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		<title>By: mcmarc</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-52803</link>
		<dc:creator>mcmarc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-52803</guid>
		<description>These bottom-up, localized solutions do not fit into the Grand Plan designed by the Wise Planners. Darn those pesky entrepreneurs, persistent markets and annoying customers. Why won&#039;t they behave like we tell them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These bottom-up, localized solutions do not fit into the Grand Plan designed by the Wise Planners. Darn those pesky entrepreneurs, persistent markets and annoying customers. Why won&#8217;t they behave like we tell them?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-52783</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-52783</guid>
		<description>Does anybody know if Medicare or Medicaid will pay the market price (price everybody else is paying) for after hours care?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody know if Medicare or Medicaid will pay the market price (price everybody else is paying) for after hours care?</p>
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		<title>By: dymphna</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-52774</link>
		<dc:creator>dymphna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-52774</guid>
		<description>Our group of docs provide after hours phone calls and advice. They will call ahead to the ER if they think we should go. This phone call helps us around the long wait, red-tape ER experience.

This clinic is sliding scale, too, but the docs are experienced, board certified.

When my mother was dying, our doc gave us her home phone # and told us to call any time.

Health care needs some tinkering, but it doesn&#039;t need a massive federal government train wreck disguised as &quot;reform&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our group of docs provide after hours phone calls and advice. They will call ahead to the ER if they think we should go. This phone call helps us around the long wait, red-tape ER experience.</p>
<p>This clinic is sliding scale, too, but the docs are experienced, board certified.</p>
<p>When my mother was dying, our doc gave us her home phone # and told us to call any time.</p>
<p>Health care needs some tinkering, but it doesn&#8217;t need a massive federal government train wreck disguised as &#8220;reform&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: artk</title>
		<link>http://healthblog.ncpa.org/real-health-care-reform-local-provisions-for-after-hours-care/comment-page-1/#comment-52771</link>
		<dc:creator>artk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 01:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=8610#comment-52771</guid>
		<description>The Commonwealth Fund doesn&#039;t ignore that information, it’s just that a handful of walk in centers that may be open 24x7 aren&#039;t statistically significant.  One more point, they charge a maximum of $275 a visit for people with the cash or a credit card.  If you’re poor, and don’t have the cash, you pay a down payment of $75 and then pay an additional 250.  So, they take advantage of the poorest by charging them 20% more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Commonwealth Fund doesn&#8217;t ignore that information, it’s just that a handful of walk in centers that may be open 24&#215;7 aren&#8217;t statistically significant.  One more point, they charge a maximum of $275 a visit for people with the cash or a credit card.  If you’re poor, and don’t have the cash, you pay a down payment of $75 and then pay an additional 250.  So, they take advantage of the poorest by charging them 20% more.</p>
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